David Lindahl - There is a difference between having a team and the RIGHT team

Hello and welcome to wildly on business with authors. A podcast where we talk with the authors that business leaders are reading. It's a known fact that highly successful leaders are generally voracious readers, and that a great book can be one of the most efficient proxies for experience. My name is Jake Wiley and over my nearly two decades of business experience and client service, owning a business, as well as being a CFO, I've had the opportunity to see the direct impact great books, and thought leaders have had on business successes. I've had the incredible fortune to be able to sit down and chat with the authors of the books, the leaders we look up to are reading and share some of the backstory and insights that led to these thought provoking books directly with you. Dave lindahl is the founder and CEO of our E mentor and author of multifamily millions. Over the last 20 years, Dave has bought and sold over 8200 Real Estate units with a focus on multifamily commercial properties. The most important message that Dave stresses is that when you do it all yourself, you end up burned out. And then out of business, you've got to surround yourself with the right team. And those include both employees, as well as external contractors. Let's jump into the conversation and listen as Dave shares his path to success. Well, Dave, thank you so much for making the time to join me today. This is really excited. I've read your books have attended your webinars, your story about building a team. And that's how you build a business is just right on point with everything that we talked about on the podcast. So thank you for being here. And you know, I'd love to kick it over to you to talk about what's important to you right now, what's going on in your life, what's what's new in your business. And you know, we'll pick it up from there.

Well, right now, what's important in my life is a couple of things, we are in the middle of getting into one of the biggest opportunities that we've seen since the 2008 financial crisis, which is the COVID opportunity. What happened with COVID actually left a lot of sloppy, for lack of a better phrase sloppy, sloppy owners exposed, and it wasn't really their fault, they we just came out of a 10 year run where, you know, you can make all kinds of mistakes investing, but we were in such an upcycled, we were moving so fast that anybody that made a mistake, their mistakes are usually corrected by the market. The problem is, is they didn't feel any pain from their mistakes, you know, they, they almost rewarded for it. So that made very sloppy investors. And then when the market got pulled out from under everybody, you know, those without the skills, the operational skills, you know, the three major skills in multifamily investing there the deal sourcing skills, the foundational skills, I mean, the the money raising skills in the operation skills, most people go after the first two because it's so sexy. And they they forget about the last one, which is the operations because they're so busy chasing more acquisition fees and more deals. So those are the people that are exposed get exposed, unfortunately, and they're everywhere. So this opportunity is is big, you know, we've been guilty. This is my third market cycle. So I know what's going to happen, we're gonna get into a period of time where two or three years, it's just, you know, you just running, running, running, running, running. And so in the last few years, you kind of have a market cycle, you just kind of rest up, you do other things, you maybe look at other business opportunities, you know, I had kids, unfortunately. So for the last four years, I've had, I've had three kids in four years. And it's been crazy. So I thought, you know what, I probably should have like, had those kids a little bit earlier, you know, before this market cycle. So I could add a little bit of fun. But so those are the two big two most important things in my life right now my kids and my next cycle. Well, congratulations on the kids and congratulations on the cycle. I think a question before we dive into the questions proper is that you see the market especially in like real estate, residential real estate, the home buyers market is is out of control across the country. And you know, you're talking about there's there's kind of Yeah, coming into multifamily. Can you can you help bridge the gap as to why that is and like, how that's happening. What the opportunity is in multifamily or do you want me to include the single family? Yeah, no, I mean, I'm just saying like you the single family stuff seems like it's a runaway train right now. But you're saying that there's such an opportunity in multifamily for sloppy for the sloppy folks. Yeah. Why is that? It's because see, they get caught, they get caught with their pants down in the sense that they weren't operating the properties properly. So when COVID came, and they lost their tenant, well, they, a lot of their tenant base lost their incomes. So what happened is rent stopped being paid. So when rent stops being paid, owners stopped doing the maintenance, I should say, bad owners started stopped doing the maintenance on their properties, not realizing that the number one reason that a tenant a good tenant will leave your property is the fact that you don't take care of the maintenance. It's not that the rents are at market or they're higher which typically they are doing Usually a market rents isn't the number one reason people leave, it's, it's the fact that the ownership they feel doesn't care for them anymore because they're not doing the maintenance request. So then this is like a downward spiral, I call it the death spiral, you know, it takes a little bit of time to get there. But now we take anywhere from six to six to 12 months to get here for an owner. And so what happens is, the good tenants gonna leave, you can't replace those good tenants with the same quality tenants, because the same quality tenant will not come into a place that's not taking care of its maintenance. So now your tenant profile starts to degenerate a little bit. And then as the tenant profile starts to generate more good tenants leave the replaced by, you know, not as good tenants. And then the maintenance continues to build up. Again, more tenants leave, and then the quality of tenants declines even further. And when you have a quality of tenant that's declining, what happens is, is your revenues are at risk, again, because these people typically skip out four or five, six months down the road. So now we've got even less revenues to take care of maintenance, that's not being taken care of. So the owners actually get to the point where they can't cover their mortgage payment. It takes a while to get there, the smart guys, the smart people that got involved in multifamily and, you know, saw a whole bunch of appreciation in a short period of time but weren't really good at operations. They get out, they get out early, you know, they saw the situation, they're like, oh, shoot, you know, I'm sorry about that. You're taking Oh, crap, we can't take it. You know, we can't handle this. But I'm smart enough to realize I can't handle this. I'm gonna take the equity that I have left, and leave. So those deals are already gone. So now what we've got is we've got all these people that are either in pre foreclosure or in foreclosure costar analytic said that the cmbs mortgages will have this highest default rate in 12 years, coming into this year and going into next year. That's just the MBs, the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA as well, it's gonna be tsunami of properties coming out to the marketplace. That's amazing. Yeah, I appreciate you bridging that gap, right? Because if you if you're out there trying to buy a home now, you can't even find one. Or if you did, if you can't afford it. Well think back to the single family aspect, the single family the problem with that market is there's two there's twofold here. Number one, there is such a there's such an under supply of single family houses been building up for years now. And finally, just kind of like when COVID happened, what happened is everybody ran from the cities, and they headed for the suburbs, they hadn't said that they headed into the second home markets. And that's what then all of a sudden, those markets exploded, there was no there was no correction that we expected to happen. Like I give you a perfect example. Now with my kids, I used to have a house in the river up in the mountains. I love that house. I used to kayak up there next to a ski mountain. And I spent a lot of time up there, I had the kids, there's a 30 foot drop down to the river, the yards, not that big, the house wasn't that large. And I thought you know what, I'm going to sell this house at the top of the market. This is pre COVID to the top of the market. Alright, and then I'll wait for the next eight, nine months and in the markets gonna correct and then I'll buy a ski in ski out on the mountain, you know, the big backyard, the mountain, right. So the kids can play at that time. But what happened was is nobody foresaw COVID happening. You know, I did this in December, unfortunately, you know, with a big lockdown happened, everybody had their second homes, I didn't have one because I sold at the top of the market. But now the properties I was looking at for like, say half a million dollars ski in ski out to selling for 750,000. I was expecting to pay 250 to 300,000 during the correction. You know. So that's what's happening in the second home market and the undersupplied the primary single family market is what's causing the surge there.

Yeah, city. I mean, you still expect the correction to come. In single family, yeah.

Single, I expect a correction to come the second home market, because people will move back to the city. Right, you know, memories of slow. When everybody gets vaccinated. Mid next year, when everything's opened back up again, people got to start coming back into the city, unless and unless something else happens, you know, it's some sort of health problem again, you know, and then the secondary market will open back up again. But I think there's still such an under supply in the single family market. We said a couple of years of, you know, supply that needs to be put onto the market before that market really corrects. Okay. Cool. It's all you know, real estate is local, too. So you have markets.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we can hopefully we'll get into some of that, like your emerging markets, the path of progress. But I guess really getting into the questions proper. You talk so much in your books, you know, in your webinars about building the right team. How much of your success would you actually attribute to the teams that you've built versus like your your ability to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and in willpower alone?

You know, it's all about team because certainly, in real estate and business nomads that I went out there, you've got to you've got to be smart enough to realize that you're not smart enough to do everything, you know, and then that's how you d supplement your weaknesses with your team. And and you can't possibly do it even if you weren't smart. If you were smart enough to do everything you couldn't possibly do everything that you would need in order to scale a business. You could certainly grow a business but you'd only grow to a certain point. So when I first started investing in real estate Yeah, I bought my first couple of deals, and I gotten, you know, I put a broker on my team, you know, he would bring me deals, I had an attorney that does business with, I didn't realize the importance of the team until I got property Five, six, and seven, we realized, wow, you know, this is really a business I think I can do. So Alright, so how do I, how do I do this? You know, how do I do this and scale it to what I think I can do. And that's when I started putting my team together, even the first part of my team was my best friend, we both broke when we started 2024 years ago. And the only reason I brought him on is because I was too afraid, you know, to do it myself. He was working the second ship that Chad was clothing company, putting boxes of clothes and boxes and shipping them out. We were both working in a third shift at the St. Johnsbury trucking company two nights a week, so we could make ends meet. But what I what I knew is that I was very creative. And as long as I could go out and get more deals, you know, and I didn't have to do the stuff that deal with the tenants, you know, and he would collect the rents and he would do the maintenance and all the stuff I wasn't good at. And then as a team, we were able to grow because he you know, we both supplemented each other's weaknesses. Yeah, that's it, we we grew to almost 40 properties in three years. Holy cow. Yeah. No, it

was it. He said took seven properties for you to kind of figure it out. It was it was it? Did you just one day, it kind of clicked for you that like, you know, I gotta start developing the right team and putting people in place? Or is it just this gradual thing where you just ran out of bandwidth?

It wasn't one of these things is like, wow, like it's an epiphany happened. Yeah. Genius. No, I just started this. And this is this is how I do the scale. I read the book called The E myth revisited. Yep. And it's all about working on your business instead of in your business. And that's what made me realize I need to be able to delegate. When you delegate you delegate to people on those people are your team. So that really helped out there's another great book out there by john warrillow, which is called Built to Sell. And I read that book, probably five years, when I was building other businesses as well. Because, you know, once you get one down, and he systems in place in your teams in place, that frees you up to look around for other opportunities, if you're that type of person, right, and I am so I started reading, you know, as much as I could about, you know, about all the even was Richard Porter stuff from Harvard Business School, you know, his management stuff is all about team building. All that stuff is great. So you keep feeding your stuff, information on teams, and you know, realizing that even even now you're here I am 24 years in the business, I'm probably in my eighth or ninth business, you know, some of them are sold off. Some of them didn't make it. The idea wasn't right, I've got one business right now that's in limbo, because my timing was off. It wasn't the fact that I debit team or I didn't have the people in place was just like, Oh, you know, COVID through the timing of that business, I opened it up in March of last year, right at the start of Kofi? And is like, Damn, man, no, everything is everything's pushed off because of it. So yeah, I mean, I'm going through consulting right now, again, about scaling and team building, you know, how to put everything in place, how to eliminate myself from the process, basically, right? That's what as an entrepreneur, we want to do, we want to be able to eliminate our ourselves from the process, because eventually we want the ability, not only to scale, but to sell. And we can only sell when, when we are not, you know, one of the key factors in business.

So let's flip it on its head a little bit. And can you can you give an example or tell a story about a time that you got it wrong, you know, so we can share some of the knowledge and some of the lumps you've you've hit along the way to say, Okay, yeah, look, I tried to do this, I was cheap, or whatever it may be. And you learn the lesson the hard way.

I can tell you a story about a property that I bought in Huntsville, Alabama, it was a 400 unit 42% occupied, I hadn't bought a property that size, nor with that type of distress by assumed I could do it. And at doing that I was building another business. My education company was just taking off, I was flying. I was doing two things. I was flying around the world teaching people how to buy multifamily. And I was also buying multi families. Because when I first started teaching people how to do it, I had been investing for 10 years, I had over close to 1000 units. But as I was teaching, I was also building my portfolio. And I'd gotten to almost 8000 units, you know, in a number of years. So I was scaling that in scaling education as well. And I bought this property that I didn't realize the type of team I needed on that property. I was used to momentum plays, I was used to things cashflow closing, you know, I wasn't used to overseeing a big construction I was I was used to be overseeing small construction on on small properties in the Boston area where I'm from, but this is not in Huntsville. This is 400 units 42% occupied all kinds of problems. And I just didn't have the right team in place because I didn't know what team I needed to have in place because of my lack of experience. That that deal. I thought it was gonna be a two year deal. I was gonna make 3 million it ended up being a six year deal. And I paid the investors I paid the investors back their money, right but that's what I wish I'd never get into that deal. Yeah But had I set myself up at the beginning properly, I would have that it would have been probably been a three year deal because it was a little bit bigger re repositioning than I thought it was. But at least it would have been a three year deal. And I would have walked away, my investors would have walked away with a bunch of money didn't happen. I didn't know what to put in place wasn't smart.

It's a great story. You know, it's one of those where if you look back, would you like, Is there something you could have done differently? Or did you have to learn that one the hard way?

Yeah, well, I'd learned it the hard way. But looking back, what I would have done differently is I would have put a team down there and monitor them on a regular basis, right? Because I didn't I just assumed things were happening. I had team members here, but they were the wrong team members, and we do wrong things. Yeah, you guys. Sorry. I would have gotten a partner that knew that knew how to do that as well. Right?

Yeah, I think that's, you're seeing a lot of that popping up now like co founders and people that kind of have the, the skills for various parts of the business to really glue the thing together. But you know, I've read your books. And one of the things that really struck me is that you describe me in the book, I've been investing in real estate since 2006. And like, you, I started small, I was like, wow, I can do single families. And I can do doubles duplexes. And you know, we've we've acquired them. And you point out in the book, that it's hard when you do these small properties. To get management in place, that's good. Because it's such a small like one off thing. And I've struggled with that I've gotten the calls in the middle of the night because the toilets overflowing and had to jump on, you know, jump in my car and go deal with that. Tenants paying late and being the guy that's on collections and the marketing stood outside of a section eight, you know, place and tried to woo tenants, I've done it all. And you know, you point out like, usually takes about two and a half years for somebody to like completely burn out in the business. And I lasted a little bit longer than that we still have some property. But everything that you said resonated. So while with me, like in 2009, they changed the rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already had five properties. They're like, we can't do it. So I had to go then start raising private money. We did that, which was, you know, an adventure in its own right. Investor Relations is now an issue. But when you talk about moving into multifamily, lots of doors, you know, the ability to really use scale and bring a team in and bring that value is something that's just totally resonated with me. Could you, I guess, talk a little bit about kind of the philosophy and the transition that you made into the larger units and how that working with larger units allows you to build better teams?

Well, yeah, so I was never a single single family person. At first, I always was interested in multifamily. Because Harry Helmsley, I started with heavy housing from New York City. And he basically said, you know, he started with nothing and ended up on the Empire State Building. And he said that there are groups of people out there that will give you money every month, they'll pay for your mortgage, they'll pay for maintenance, guys of swinging hammers and take out the trash and cleaning toilets. They'll pay for people to babysit your tenants and collect the rents and for the privilege of doing all that they'll pay you extra money. So you can reinvest, put in a savings account, and have some fun. I thought dammit, that's true. That's what I want. You know, I was before I was broke at the time, and I thought that sounds good to me. And come to find out it was true. But you know, we all live in fear, especially at the beginning of anything in any endeavor, we fear and took me nine months to do my first deal. But within three months after we pulled the trigger on the first loan, within three months, we had three more. Within six months, we had nine within the first year we had 11 and then almost 40 in three years. But there were only three to six units because I was afraid to do anything bigger. Right and then I we had become multimillionaires on paper. And I realized that the market was changing. And either we had to go into a cash position, you know, to save our equity. Or if we could find another market like Brockton, Massachusetts, when I first started investing, you know, coming from the bottom to the upside, then maybe we could double or triple or quadruple our money or equity while Brighton's going through this The downside of the cycle, and that's my start learning about job growth in emerging markets. And I learned about Montgomery, Alabama bringing 5000 new jobs coming in with a multiplier effect of three, which meant 15,000 additional jobs are going to come in ancillary jobs support the 5000. So 20,000 new jobs coming into this area that was surrounded by flood plains. The floodplains are a barrier to entry because you can't build on those floodplain so supply remains stable so it was a really good market to go into. But I want to buy three to 16 units there I didn't want to buy anything bigger, and I had filled equity my the properties I had to buy bigger so I I bought a 40 and then an 80 and then a 350 Jackson, Mississippi, and I realized that the you know, the larger the properties, the better quality team members that you You will have because everything in that in multifamily is based on scale, you know, you're everybody's paid based on scale. But management companies are paid based on the amount of revenues that come in a certain percentage. The people that you get your loans from or the their pay is based on a loan amount, the brokers, the it's a percentage of the purchase price, the people that inspect the property's current door, you know, so you gay people are getting paid more, you're getting better quality people, because the people that aren't quality, you know, those size properties, owners or investors aren't gonna deal with them, you know, so they weed themselves out. So that you know, the bigger the property, you get the actually the better the team members that come come with it in a particular area, you just need to know how to, you know, source about?

Yeah, that's Yeah, that's great advice. And then I guess, really thinking through like, building the right teams, like you said, You gave us an example of where it didn't go? Well, and you've given us some examples of how scaling up is brought in better people, I guess what's been the biggest barrier to getting others aligned with your vision in your goals? Like how do you how do you keep everybody rowing in the same direction, when you have all these teams out there?

That's a that's, that's a part of business function. So you know, you always have to be people need to know what the vision is of the company. You know, if you walked into my company, hiring mentors, you know, in Rockland, and just like people will visit, so that's my education company, people will pop in there unexpectedly, just as if it's really real, you know, we've got 12,000 square feet, there's about 30 people over there, mainly, they support the people that are, you know, that we're teaching how to invest. But if you if you walk through there, and you pick anybody out of the group, and said, Hey, what's, what's the vision of the company, they'll tell you immediately where we're gonna go, what we're gonna do, you know, we have five core values, if you said, If you pull a science, what are the what are the core values of the company, they'll say, oh, they're five, boom, boom, listed down. Why? Because every week, we have a meeting, we start off with those five core values, we start off with the vision, I call people, you know, nobody knows who I'm going to call, but I'll say, hey, john, what's our vision starts off, what's our vision, and everybody knows, everybody knows to be prepared for that the cold call, you know, but that's, it aligns everybody. And then we have meetings, you know, I read the Rockefeller habits, you know, and choose your top five, most top top five most important things of the year, for the, for the quarters of the month, for the week. So everybody's doing their top five for the weekend, you know, we have the management meeting, and we all talk about the top fives and make sure they're all in alignment, and then it filters down into everybody else in the organization. So that's how you do it is constant communication inside of the company, and it's a culture fit. I mean, if somebody there is if they're spectacular, you know, you know, underwriting deals, or, you know, or coaching students, you know, but yet they don't fit the culture of the company can help. You know, it's a culture field.

So it's a hire slow, fire fast type of mentality.

Yeah, you try. I, I wish. It's right. Sometimes, it doesn't work out that way. But I just reminded of, you know, I've kept people on for much longer. I'm a big reader of books, you know, so I'm right. I'm talking about different books, but because that's how you, that's how you get additional knowledge. So you know, the book Good to Great, have you read that one?

I sure have.

So that talks about, you know, as the leader of the company, you got to be able to fire people, no matter how hard it is. Because if you don't, your company won't be successful. And you've got to do it, not only for yourself, but you got to do it for the other for the other team members as well. And you also got to do it for that person. Because that person, you know, if they're not in the right place, you've got to let them go. And they'll blossom somewhere else. You know, so it's good for everybody involved, but it's probably the hardest thing to do. I don't fire that many people anymore, because I am getting good at hiring, right. But number two, I only have to fire like the upper level management. But there have been times where, you know, I've sat down to fire somebody and they started crying, and I started crying and we end up in a hook and right, and it's like, Alright, but you still have to go, you know, I hate this, that this is happening. But it's just it's a very difficult thing to do. But as a leader, it's it's probably one of the most important things that you do.

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess let's talk about let's shift gears a little bit to your education company. So you're, you've been very successful in investing in real estate. You've built systems, you've exponentially grown your business, why I guess why the education company and then to what do you do at the education company to help people like say, like me, kind of get over my, you know, doubles singles and doubles here and move into the the big leagues.

The education company came, it wasn't planned. It was I had created a real estate brokerage company because I had I didn't start with single families but I but I didn't have any money. So I use credit cards needed to get started and then use hard money and then I realized I could flip single family properties to support my multifamily habit. Yep. So I get good at doing that as well. And then one of my mentors said who was a hard money lender Said I'm about to foreclose on a property over in Brockton. I know you've been doing some a little bit of brokerage on the side, I figured I could do for other people to make a little commission. He said, Why don't you move your your real estate broker from your one bedroom apartment over to this, you know, this, this building, and I did. And that worked out pretty good. We ended up being number three in the city, within like four or five years, I had 26 agents working for me. But it became the biggest pain in the ass. Like, you know, I learned that I manage my tenants myself at the beginning, I learned that not the right thing to do. And then they hired management companies or credit management systems to to do have other people do it for me. I didn't do the same thing with my brokerage company. So I was managing the agents. And that was like, and it wasn't planned that way at the beginning, but it ended up that way. Not not because I wanted to, but it just became a wicked pain. And I didn't like it. Number one people in that business are very loyal. And I had, I had helped people succeed to very high levels that they started out. One was a nurse and one was in stable oil technician. And these are the ones that come to mind. Disabled old technician, a school bus driver, you know, they're used to making 20 to 30,000 a year and then two years later, the making 150 to 200,000 for the stuff that I taught them. And it wasn't stuff that I knew inherently it was stuff that I was like holy crap, I'm gonna have to manage this company wasn't the plan but Okay, so who's got all the information on how to manage effectively and back then it was called across Floyd Whitman, Brian Buffini, so I just consumed all their stuff, became a good manager of people in that business and but then REMAX would come calling, I had a disabled old technician come to me and say, Hey, you know, REMAX, they offered me a 95 five split. And I'm like, Well, you know, I'm an independent, you know, the most I could go is is a 7030. You know, that's it. He's like, Okay, I'm like, Well, okay, you gotta stay or you leave. And he's like, Okay, I gotta go. You gotta go. Like, you're disabled. Oh, take this, your leg was dragon, you know, you, you earned enough money to fix your leg, from what I taught you, you're gonna leave me. He's like, Dave, it's just business. I'm like, I hate this business. I'm a really loyal guy. I just hated it. And then, and it was always something going on, there was always some drama. My office is like a psychology center, you know, people coming in and have to. So anyways, I'm driving into one day, and I was like, You know what? I said to myself, I'm not frickin going into it. I hate that. I hate that company is very successful, but I hate it. I'm not going in. I called my sister who is also working there. And I said, I'm not coming in anymore. Make jack the manager. And that's it. He's like, you're really not coming in anymore. I said, I am not coming into that business anymore. And she's like, well, what are you going to do? And I said, I don't know. I'll figure it out. And I just sat on the side of the road, and I thought, What am I gonna do? And then I've been going to all about real estate investing, I've been going to all the different seminars, especially at the beginning, I went to a mall. And it's been a few years past that, but I made a bunch of friends. And some of those friends start doing their own seminars. I thought, you know, what I could teach people how to do invest in multifamily properties, why don't I call you know, one of my friends and find out, you know how they did it. And that's, that's how that business gets started from total frustration from the previous business. And then right up here, where I just showed you, you know, I scanned it around that for that this business started up above this garage here. And it was my mom, who is a fish cutter, the fish pears of Boston for 27 years she have fired, replaced by a machine. And Gosh, she sat in that corner over there, I created these CD sets, eight CDs for my how to invest in multifamily. She plugged each one into the computer one at a time, when we first started selling most courses, you know, now we have stacks of CDs that go in and out. And that's how it started.

So tell me a little bit about what you what you do for folks. Like if somebody was looking to get into this business, like what, what is our inventory? Do?

We do two things, we teach people the skill set of multifamily investing, so that they can go out and do it effectively, and create everybody's gonna make mistakes, but make small mistakes, not the big ones, you know, and then we're here support as long as people pick up the phone and call us. There's always somebody at the office, you know that we'll answer a question that a client has going out there, whether or not they just bought a book where they get a home study system, or whether they're in coaching doesn't matter. We don't care who calls we want to be supportive. Because, you know, as I was going through the phases, I was broke. When I started, I didn't know anything. So many people allowed me to take them out to lunch. So many, there were some really good people out there teaching at the time, there were some really crappy people too. But I gravitated towards the good ones that I picked up their habits, which was be assessable. Fine. So we do so we're really good at teaching the skills involved and how to do it, because we do it. I mean, zero to 8000 units. Now we do it on a regular basis. But what I didn't realize until about year three, was that there was this huge mindset component. You know, people weren't as like, how can people honestly cessful as I thought they would be at the beginning. You know, they're using the same systems that I'm using and other people out there killing it with the same system. Well, why don't why aren't isn't everybody and I did a study on that because I wanted people to be successful. And it turned out to be mindset, limiting beliefs, you know, not believing they could do it. Fear, a lot of fear. I mean, I had lot if you're doing it my, you know, my first time I don't get a partner and do all these things. And it's like, damn it. Yeah, it's like they have to everybody has to go through the same process that I had to go through, you know, because when I first started, I come from a very low class, middle middle class family and my mom was a fiskardo, my father worked two jobs to support us. And my mother always taught us that the good stuff for the rich people, you know, and wouldn't you know, is that too bad that we're not rich, basically. And that was my mindset going up until like my mid 20s, early 20s. And all of a sudden, I was like, Well, why not? Me? Right? And why can't I be rich too? You know, why isn't just other people. And I started reading books like the Anthony Anthony Robbins, awaken the giant within write the magic of thinking big raise the bar, all that stuff. Earl Nightingale lead the field, what an awesome tapes, am I reading for the first time in years? Thinking Grow Rich, which I read for four years in a row at the beginning of every year. And you know, that was 20 something years ago. And I'm rereading it now. I'm thinking, wow, that book means so much more today than it did back then. Because you know, I've been through so much is like, Damn, man, I actually forgotten you know what that was all about. If you have you read thinking grow rich.

Yeah. I mean, it's actually almost chilling that you brought that up, because Today's my birthday, right? So it's my 40th birthday. So I'm going through this. It's my birthday, right? And I got in the mail, a present for my mom. And she's, she usually sends me like books, just some random books. So yesterday, literally, yesterday, a box shows up in the mail with thinking grow rich. And she just sent it to me. And it's the strangest thing. And I was like, I was telling my wife about this. It was like, so strange. Like, there's something about it, like it's a sign. I've read it like four times, you know, like you have. And I was like, you know, the fact that this showed up in the mail that my mom somehow pick this up and decided that like I needed to read this right now. was just amazing. So I started reading, I read half of it yesterday. So I mean, it's just almost gives me chills that now here you are bringing it up, specifically. Like there's definitely a sign there.

Yeah, and then you start you know, that book is starting, and I started connecting you to the different other books that I've read. And I thought, you know, this, the whole mindset, not just the mindset, but actually going into Have you read superhuman by Joe dispenza.

I have not, that's a good one.

That's an awesome book. So for you and for everybody else's listening, superhuman, it's all about this guy, Joe dispenza. He's a neuroscientist, and he talks about how, you know, you go into deep meditation and you he goes through all these energy centers and processes, but basically, you sending information out of vibrations out to the quantum field, you know, and you're, you're dictating your future, which is basically what they can grow, which is all about exactly, you know, and I had read this other book that I have one of my friends two years ago said, Oh, you know, Jordan, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, he's worth probably 750 million right now. He's like, really? He goes, yeah. And he reads, and he's got this book, The Science of Getting Rich, that he read it, and he highlighted it. And he keeps him as does he read the highlights once a week. And of course, I immediately when I've got the science of getting rich, you know, because I wasn't read that much, right? And I want to be worth that much. So I thought, Oh, he's doing it, there must be good. So I get that book. And I read it and I highlight and sit on my desk. And every Monday or Friday, I will read the highlights, you know, before my week goes on. And after I read your dispenses book, I'm thinking you know, that's a lot like the science of getting rich, I wonder if it's the same author. So I went back to you know, pick it up from my desk, I opened it up, the science of getting rich was was written in 1910. Which shocked me. Yeah, and Joe dispenza has just recently came out last year. So all this stuff, you know, there's, there's another book, it's kind of Fufu. But if you if you go down deep into what it's all about, it's, it's called asking and is given, you know, it's all about the vibrations that you send out, you know, what you send out, you get back. And that's why it's so important to maintain a positive attitude. And, and I'm not talking about Pollyanna, I'm just talking about just maintain, you can spin anything in this world to be positive or negative. So why not spend it to be positive and live happier? Yeah, that's Oh, you know what? Negative people really negative people, they really, they some of them seem really happy to be negative. I don't know why. But life is a lot better when you're when you're when you're when you're positive, I think.

Yeah, and I mean, I actually have a have a feeling about like, we kind of have a theory on the whole negativity thing too, is that what it is, is like it invokes emotion, right? Like you can live kind of even keel right and just kind of let the days go by. Or you can be super excited and passionate about what you're doing. Or you can be very negative but the feeling Yeah. is almost like dopamine itself, right? So like the negativity you actually like, I feel it. So it's not the same as just kind of coasting you just gives you something but that's, you know, that's just kind of my theory on like, why that happens. And why it persists is because it is a feeling right and like you get something from that. There is a feedback loop but I'll definitely check out those books. I think it's just really like it's blowing my mind to Think and Grow Rich has come up twice. The same day. I'll definitely read Didn't I mean, you know, to your point there about what it's really saying and like what I'm picking up this time around, versus when I've read it before, it's just kind of your point about being positive. And just saying like, well, if you can just totally visualize what the future is that you want, and you can feel it, and you can see it and you take steps every day, like your mind will start to correct self correct. To get you there. In like, your actions will change and you don't have to know like, what all the actions are, because they'll just kind of the work themselves out and it's like the vibrations and I mean, I believe in all of these things, and I just think it's so cool that you brought all that stuff up. So

I got another really good book for you. Okay, as well. And it was I just started getting on tik tok, you know, tick tock to get my algorithm down now, and I got the funniest stuff, I get the workout stuff, I get the nutrition stuff and, and I this person came on said, hey, these three books changed my life, they may change yours, and there's one, two, and then the third one was the mountain is you. Okay? And the mountain is us about how to stop self sabotaging yourself. Pretty quick read, I read it. In about a day and a half, just two days ago, I was like, wow, this, this is just right in line with thinking Grow Rich, which I'm three quarters of the way through, I kind of like stopped reading that read this other one. And it's a really good book so short for anybody who feels that they self sabotage themselves. There's this great book called The mountain is you out there.

Yeah. And I bet like if you don't think you do you do. Perfect. That's awesome. So you mentioned earlier that you have a mentor? Do you have a bunch of mentors? Like what is what is your take on mentors?

Yeah, there's always people out there that have done it better, quicker, smarter. You know, uh, yeah, I've got mentors that I meet with, and then I've got mentors that I've never met before. Like, I'll never forget, one of my mentors, is, you know, body for life. Bill Phillips? Yep. Yeah. So when I first started powerlifting, back in 2000. They said all the guys had read muscle media, Bill Phillips writes, it's one of the best books out there. It's none of us writing drives, like not no drugs, you know, this, this and, and it was so good. And we'd go to these competitions all the time. And all of a sudden, Bill's articles were in there anymore. It's like what happened? And then somebody said, Oh, Bill, soul, the soul. He said, Yeah, so for 300 and something million, I was like, wow, that you know, and that was all part of the challenge and all that stuff, all the marketing stuff behind it. And when I get into the information business, so first, he was my mentor that I didn't know for powerlifting. And then when I realized he was really in the information business, and then I get in the information business, then he became my mentor in the information business as well. And I don't know Do you know Joe Polish sounds for Joe, Joe polishes of marketers, great marketer, he runs a group called the 25k group. So I began I was a member of that group for a couple of years. And one so as where he gets a he we meet in Phoenix and then give us surprises every once in a while, while we were actually meet with Phoenix or somewhere in California. And he said, Oh, surprise for Sunday is we're going to Bill Phillips house. I'm like, wow, this is gonna be awesome. And I ended up going to Bill Phillips house, he, you know, he served us lunch, and it was just great. I was just in awe. So well, but that book party for like, I follow that for years, you know, basically you what you want for six days, and you know, I mean, eat for six days, he went to work for seven. And that's how I live my life for a long time worked out. Well.

That's awesome. So in terms of like mentors, do you pick up the phone? And like, do you find people that are you think would be a mentor and you pick up the phone and you call them or they just naturally evolve in your in your business philosophy? Oh,

no, because I'm really an introvert by nature, right? I'm deep introvert. So it's difficult for me to do that. I can meet people, you know, I'm a really I'm not a great networker as well. So what most of my most of my real mentors are people that I don't really know. And then I'll get into groups you know, pay, like Joe Joe polishes, 25k group, I pay 25,000 to meet with a bunch of guys two times, three times a year for two days. So I seek out groups like that, and I get in there and then you know, you get you get to meet good quality people, you surround yourself by them and kind of mentor each other. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, we focus on each other's needs. We look at look at how we can help each other out.

That's awesome. Yeah, this have talked to a lot of people. And I think you're the first person that's, that's really kind of bought into kind of this, this networking, you buy into almost a networking group. And you believe in it, right? Which is, which is phenomenal.

You know, my good friend Bill Glazer, are you familiar with him? Yeah. He's an awesome marketer. I believe he just had a second stroke, unfortunately. So you need to say praise for him. He Oh, wow. Yeah, just happened two days ago, and I'm part of his mastermind and he had his first stroke and he kind of disappeared he sold Glaser Kennedy and then started up his mastermind again, as soon as I found out he started up I was in but the very first time that years and years ago when you're still with Dan Ken And he, and he had just broken off and started this mastermind group. And I said, I felt the application. And I said, I want to know who else is in the group. And is like, we're not going to tell you who else is going to be in the group. I said, Well, I want to know who else is going to be in the group. We're also not going to join the group, because I don't want to be the smartest person in the room, which I didn't think I was going to be. But if I was then it was a real serious problem

group. That's right.

So he was like, he, they wouldn't know they didn't put me in the group because I asked them, but then later I was. So Bill's a really smart guy. And I was so persistent, because I wanted to get in front of them. And I wanted to have like, it was a day appointment, so I could run through my businesses with them. And I'll never forget, I called her like, once a week. First it was every day. And then it was once a week and you know, for weeks and weeks and weeks, maybe a year, I think and then he walks in the room on the one day, right? He sits down, he looks at me, he goes, I want to know how you how you're sitting in that seat right now. I was like, What are you talking about? He goes, Well, you don't have any you know, I don't my newsletter list. You don't have this. You don't have that. Not my mastermind. Why are you in that seat? And you're the guy that that wouldn't join because I wouldn't give you what's on the list. Why are you in that seat? Right? Because I'm so frickin persistent, built. And then after that we became good friends. What I did join his mastermind. But um, yeah, so I don't know why I told you that story. But I don't know. That was funny.

Yeah, I've read I've definitely read every single no BS book out

there. Says Dan Kennedy. Yes, book. bill. The bill is outrageous marketing. He's got two really good books out. rageous marketing?

Yeah, I know. They were they were connected for a while. Yeah. Yes. No, they're still good friends. Very cool. So obviously, you mentor I mean, that is the name of your business. So I guess, let's talk about the flip side of it. Like, how do you feel like you feel like people should buy into these things? And kind of what is what is the value you get kind of of the already mentor?

Well, the value of every mentor is the fact that is we're all kind of inbred, you know, we're all a product of the product. First I created the initial system. And then as I brought additional people in the coaches, and students, our students out there now that have more, you know, over 10,000 units, I never got to 10,000. I don't care if I do or not now, that one time, it was a goal. But you know, you have cycles that go in and out. But there's students out there now they have well over 10,000 units. And what we do is we were all we all get together on a regular basis. In terms of mindset, everybody brings value, everybody brings information. You know, real estate is changing on a regular basis. And that allows us to share with the new clientele, the new student base, you know how to be the foundational information is basically the same. But then every market phase and every market cycle, there's new influences a new recipe for success. So it's okay, so what's the recipe for success right now, and sometimes in different markets, it's different recipes. So that's, that's the difference between our mentor in other companies that are out there. We've been teaching since 2002. And we're just like one big mind mindsets, not the word I'm looking for. What is it when you when you put a bunch of minds together? It's like a mastermind. Yeah, well, yeah, one big mastermind that shares information and regular basis. So so it's like all the nitty gritty stuff that you really need. And we all realize that it all starts with mindset.

Right. Very cool. Yeah. So that's our e mentor.com. Right? Yeah, Ari mentor.com. Okay. So I guess one of the final questions here, ask everybody if you could go back in time and tell your younger self, something, give you a piece of advice. When would you go back in two, what would you tell yourself? And then really, the last question is, do you think you'd take it? Not to buy that deal in Huntsville? Right?

Um, what would I go back and tell myself? I would, I would go back and tell myself You are worthy. Because that was my biggest hurdle that I had to get over, you know, that that I was, you know, I was, I was buying and selling multifamily properties, I own 15 properties, before I would move out of my single family, my one bedroom apartment to buy a single family house, because I didn't think I was worthy. I drove around a 10 year old truck with a big dent in the side, you know, because I didn't think I deserved even though I had all this money coming in. I think I had deserved to have a better vehicle, you know, so I would get into that I would have gotten into the mindset stuff a lot sooner than I did. I get into my late 20s. So I wasted a lot of time, I was a rock and roll band for a long time. I was a total degenerate. Not because I was in the band just because I do a lot of drugs and all that back then. And I would have stretched myself out a lot faster.

Okay, but I guess being in the rock and roll band, you don't, you probably wouldn't have taken your own advice.

That was the wave. The beard was so much fun. I probably wouldn't take any advice to get out of it until you know you get I was in it for eight years. So all of a sudden you realize is like you know, we almost made it once. Like this probably isn't going to work out. You do have a few brain cells laughs You know, maybe, maybe it being broke all the time. Isn't that great? You know, maybe there was a better life out there.

Yeah, I was never in a band, but I definitely had moments in my life where it was, you know, riding the wave was is was what it was all about.

Yeah, absolutely. We go through phases, you know, the important part is to recognize, you know, when you're through a phase or to get through a phase and to help you help you break through. I mean, people stay like, I've got I used to smoke a lot of pot in high school and all that. And you still have friends that still smoke pot, right? Nothing is smoking pot, but still wearing the same flannel shirts, and leather black leather jackets like Dude, man, you're, you're 50 years old, you know, you still get that, that black leather jackets like yes, worn. That's gonna change that mindset. Right? I never forget, I went to a Jay geils concert, which is, I don't know, familiar with them. But they're a great band. And they broke up weeks ago, every New Year's Eve, they were so upset with each other that they didn't get together for like 25 years. And when they finally came back and did a reunion, like is like, awesome. And they want the best dance band to go to not like, just like good rock'n'roll dance. And when I went there, I remember looking around and seeing everybody and everybody was like bald and fat, whatever. But a lot of them were the same clothes. You know, the the flannel shirts and the leather jackets like damn, man, the only thing I changed is they got bald and fat. They didn't change their like their attitudes. And that's really what life is all about is changing, you know, changing changing with the time.

Yeah, you know,

it's growing. It's growing, right? growing, because you're feeding yourself information on a regular basis, you know, about how the world is changing? Yeah,

I've been to I've been to a couple concerts like that. Now. I'll keep to myself, but you look around, you're like, this is not what I expected. Like, who are these people? It's like, Oh, it's people like me? Well, awesome. I know that you're gonna you're actually going to give away a book.

Yeah. So I wrote a book called multifamily millions A few years ago, it's the foundational book on multifamily investing. A lot of people have read that book. And that was really been the catapult for them to move forward. So I get that book, it's got comes with a couple books I was I asked you to pay shipping and handling. It's like $7.95. But I will send you that book on Amazon is 2395 today. But then I'll give you an emerging markets poster as well that you can put on your wall. And it outlines the four phases of the market cycle. And so you can recognize whichever phase your particular areas in how to recognize emerging markets. And it tells you what strategies you should be using at each one of those particular phases. And then there's one more awesome bonus, I can't forget what I can't remember what it is. But if you go to Dave today, calm, you'll see what it is. So you can get that free. Just pay for the shipping and handling. I'll be I'll be happy to send it out to you. And potentially get started. I mean, the one thing you gotta admit about that book is, is you can hear me, I mean, I wrote that book sitting here, like I told you earlier, before we started recording, sitting here, looking out at that at my backyard at four o'clock in the morning, an hour every morning for four months. This is how I wrote that book, because I was so busy. When they asked me to write it. I wanted to do it, but I had no time. So I just made Do you know with how I could do it?

Yeah. I've read the book. It is it's made a difference in my life. And like I mentioned earlier in the show, you spoke to me, right? Like, there were moments in the book where it's like, I'm that guy, you're talking about me. I'm the guy that wants to get rid of this thing, because I'm tired, because I did it wrong. And yeah, I wish I had read this book before I started. And probably would have started with some bigger properties too, as opposed to, you know, playing it safe and trying to like work my way up. Because like you mentioned that that's like the conventional wisdom is like start small, where you're comfortable. And like, I just kind of grew, you noticed that we went to doubles, right? Like now this is about as big as we got in because it was comfortable. It felt right. You know, it's like, oh, I can do this one, I can do another one. And I can do another one we did. And we had you know, 1112 properties in four different states. Done like one or two of those, and then move up and you would have been easier. Yep. So um, we're talking 10 years too late, but I'm not dead yet. So

what I discovered about life, life is forgiving. And yes, a great started, especially coming into this big opportunity with the COVID crisis. You know, so if it's not, you know, people move on to different things. I'm a proponent of doing whatever, you know, makes you happy, makes you comfortable and doing what you want to do. But, you know, if you're looking for opportunities, anybody's looking for opportunities, the multifamily opportunity that's coming. We haven't seen since the 2008 financial crisis, it's going to be huge. And really, if you just focus for two to three years I, I typically say view will do for three to five years what most people won't do, you can you can do for for the rest of your life, whatever you want, right, you know, but in this particular case, it's really a two to three year period focus on for two to three years and you can set yourself up for life.

I mean, that's really exciting. I mean, it really is exciting. And that's kind of why I wanted to ask you the question about like, when you think about real estate, and then the headlines that you're hearing, they all seem to be everything's going gangbusters. And you're saying like, no, there's ton of opportunity, this thing is correcting. That's personally exciting. But I think the other message that I kind of want to resonate with with my audience here, is what you mentioned earlier on in the show, too, is that when you build the right systems, and you have the right teams, it doesn't just this is not just a mindset for multifamily investing. This is a mindset for business. And then you have found that you can take kind of the systems and the processes, and you can turn and you can pivot. Yeah, there's some things, there's some nuances about the other business that you need to know. But once you have the, the right mindset, the right teams, the right systems in place, and operating, you know, small tweaks, and you're off in a totally different direction when those opportunities arise.

Absolutely, business is a is a game of strategies and tactics. If you understand the underlying strategies and tactics, and team building is a huge part of it. You can do any type of business, any type of business.

Awesome. Well, Dave, thank you so much. And guys, check out the book giveaway, I'll put the website in the show notes for you to make that easy for you. And then I'll also go back through and put all the books that Dave that recommended, because I'll probably be reading them always looking for good books. So thank you for that. And I guess, Dave, any any parting comments for the for the listeners out there?

No. Well, you know, the thing that separates those that have and have not are the ones that take action. So if you want to go get it,

okay, we're gonna leave it right there. That's awesome. That concludes this week's show. Thanks for listening. Please leave a review on your favorite podcast platform or directly on the site. Your comments are truly appreciated, good, bad or indifferent and will help make the show better. This is Jake Wiley with Wiley on business and we'll talk again two weeks