Harry Allen - Studio Bank - You are only as good as your network.

Hello and welcome to Wiley on Business a podcast where we explore how individuals and companies make dramatic breakthroughs and transform their businesses from a job to an enterprise with real value by enabling others to realize their full potential by being crystal clear on the vision of the business. My name is Jake Wiley and over my nearly two decades of business experience and client service owning a business as well as being a CFO, I've had the opportunity to see the difference between slugging it out to stay above water and exponential growth. On this podcast, I interview amazing leaders who have figured it out to get their perspectives on how they do it, and share it with you. Harry Allen is a Nashville superstar and co founder of studio bank, he's done it all on the Nashville market, including board development, raising capital branding, marketing. I personally met Harry when he's the president of the Nashville rotary. Here are a few of his other accomplishments 2018, Nashville post, all star board 20 1819 and 20, Nashville Business Journal power leader in finance, 2019 and 20. Nashville Business Journal power 100, connector 2019 and 20, top 100 Entrepreneur Award from Belmont University. I've truly enjoyed watching studio bank grow and Harry story and I'm excited to share the really great conversation we just had. Well, Harry, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really excited to hear about like what you guys have going on. I don't think there's a week that goes by that I don't see studio bank, in your name and your co founders name in the in the newspaper. So it's been an incredible year, year and a half now, I

guess. So. We already three years in June. Yeah.

Yeah. That's amazing. So I you know, just one I guess to kind of kick things off wants to tell us a little bit about yourself studio bank, and what's really important to you.

Or Yeah, so I'm Nashville native. I'm here I grew up right here in Nashville, I'm actually a fifth generation nashvillian. So this is the only city I've ever called home, and been a banker for the most part. So started in banking, when I was 18, during the town, was at at the same institution for eight years left in 2008, to be the CFO of Big Brothers, Big Sisters, and served in that role for three years before joining Avenue bank Avenue, merged with Pinnacle in 2016. And that's what started the idea of of studio, really wanting to retain local banking, local decision making, and institution where bankers were connected to the communities that they're serving. For my hometown. You know, growing up here, I knew the importance of local financial institutions, and the role that they play in a community and had an opportunity to be a part of creating naturals next vein. So that's what we did, we set out to raise capital for the board together and launched the first bank in town in I guess, 12 years now. That's awesome. That's awesome. And you guys have been growing like a weed too. Yeah, a lot of good growth. You know, so that, that prove that Nashville is ready, I guess, for you. And yeah, we're, we're over 400 million in total assets after two and a half years. So a lot of good growth. That's awesome. Well, I

know you've had a an interesting journey to get to where you are today. And I'm sure that you didn't do it all by yourself. And that's kind of the thesis of our discussion here is how, how much importance would you place on other people kind of in helping you to get to where you are today. And maybe a story.

I mean, no one arrives at a place and have has gotten there by themselves. That's just a belief that I have. Um, so I've certainly had mentors, and folks that have sponsored, supported, no, all of those things along the way. I'll tell you, you know, we decided early on erendorn, the CEO of studio bank, and I wanted this to be a true community effort. And we wanted Nashville to own the bank. And so we said, let's raise as much of the initial capital from as many nashvillians as possible. And it was really helpful that I hadn't burned any bridges, and had a lot of folks to invite to be a part. And we ended up in the first round of funding the first main capital raise about 325 or so local investors here in town, supported the bank and so, you know, there's no way we would exist. Without others, but even in terms of leadership and progression in my career, there have been really meaningful people and encounters and experiences that have led me to here. So I definitely value the power of relationship.

Yeah. And I guess, is there a specific example of kind of where you realized that I need other people to help me continue to grow my career?

I don't look. So I started in banking as an intern, okay. The while I was in school at Belmont, and they had a structured mentoring program. And so I'd say early on, like my first experience in corporate America, I was matched with a mentor. I don't know if you've ever been in that situation, but for socialization is not always ideal. Right? I had a mentor that it seemed like he was told to mentor me, right. Over the years, I decided to select my own mentors. But in terms of understanding the importance, I think I understood it really early in my career, and just continue to seek those types of relationships, mostly external from the organization that I served, actually, that can be objective sounding boards. For me.

Yeah. And I guess was that was that a gradual thing? Did you struggle to get out of your own way? Did you know because the stories that you hear about people kind of, like, rising to the top of their organization is, yeah, this heroic self made journey? Right. And the reality is, like, that's the absolute opposite of the truth. Right? It's it is the guy that can build the best teams, helps raise, you know, the whole ship, right?

Yeah, so what Yeah, what's the, what's the question? Was it a gradual process? or? Yeah, it probably was, I think I realized the power of it through the founding of the bank, because for the first time, you know, I was able to leverage every single relationship that I have, in some way, shape, or form, whether that was investors or, or putting the board of directors together, and then post lunch, you know, acquiring clients, and asking people to do business with the startup startup name. And so, yeah, I think this experience has highlighted for me the importance of building a coalition and team around and, you know, being really clear about the purpose of a thing, because that's what people are, are drawn to, if the work is about something that's bigger than you, it is a little easier to pull people into the fold and cast a vision that's, that's compelling. Nashville is on the rise, you know, it's it's a really compelling story to be a part of the the progress, and the decision making around where capital is deployed in a city that's growing like crazy. And it's pretty exciting to be a part of. Yeah, I

think there are two things that I've heard you say, and one, one in this last little bit, but the first one is like, you really burn no bridges along the way. Right. So you've, you've made a conscious effort of like, regardless of their circumstances, you try and leave your relationships good, because you never know, when it's gonna be important down the road.

Yeah, and maybe that came from my parents. But my dad always told me, the only thing you really have in this world is your name. And as an asset, you know, protect it, care for it, nurture it. And, you know, people people remember the first impression, but the lasting impression as well. And so as you leave it, as you leave a relationship, yeah, try not try to leave it intact. Because you don't know when that will come back around. Yeah, it's a,

something I've learned over my life, right, is that the world gets really small, it doesn't seem small. When you first start out, just like me, you know, there's that axiom of like, lead, follow or get out of the way. And you're just kind of like, okay, you're not important, like, let's just keep moving. And you just never know when that's going to come up and the world gets so much smaller, as you kind of like

growing your career. Yeah, and Nashville, you know, even as much as it's grown. It's a it's a small town. You know, your reputation can easily follow you matter. Good. Right.

And the other thing you said, which is probably focal to everything that I've heard, anybody that I've talked to is having a really good vision, right, that's exciting and compelling. And then being able to communicate that effectively. Right? And then you get the best of the other person, right? And it's not just, I need you to do X, because I said, so it's like, here's where we're going. And this is exciting. And you know, you've got a part in it. And I don't know exactly what that may be, you know, like, I'll let you kind of like, drive that ship a little bit, you tell me where you want to have a part of this? And then you get the best of other people. And I think you, you obviously got that

at the right point, right? Because, you know, the story is so cool. Yeah, and, you know, at Studio, we say our purpose is to empower creators. And as a bank, like that may not sound like other financial institutions in town, but we truly feel that the work is on a roll. And you know, folks who are creating things, whether it's a business, a way of life, personally, social change as the executive of a nonprofit, like, you know, all of us are creating something What, what makes humans unique is this ability to dream, and then go make it happen. Well, banks get to be partners, and providing capital and resources to folks who are creating things. And that's really special work. And that's bigger than us. It's bigger than just providing loans and deposits. Right. So yeah, we start with purpose in mind, and pull people along.

Yeah, I gotta imagine, I mean, this is just me speculating here. But as you get into some of the bigger banks, it's all about quotas and numbers, in turn, whereas like, you know, what you're talking about is is actually exciting, right, is we're gonna, we're gonna help you see your vision, and then we get to see it on the other side, and it's exciting, and we're gonna celebrate with you.

Yeah, and as you are successful in creating whatever thing you're creating, like, we're there to help you safeguard the fruits, the dollars from that creation, and so not just providing the loan, but the whole deposit. And cash management piece is absolutely as important. Because as you're successful, we're going to help you retain as much of that for the lifestyle, you're trying to build for yourself as possible. And then even beyond the client member, you know, we are a bank of community bankers who are situated in a hometown, where the bank is headquartered, and we encourage them to be involved in the community and serve not just clients that serve Nashville. And that's, that's not the position of every every bank in town. Yeah.

So I guess I'm gonna turn the tables a little bit, because I'm gonna try and make you seem a little more human. To the rest of us that are that have faults. But I guess, do you have an example of when you just tried to do it all on your own? And it didn't work out? Well?

Yeah, I mean, I tried to do it. I mean, I probably do it all the time. So I'm a parent, right, have three young kids. And you know, you do not get parenting right all the time. I'm trying to think of a work example, recently. Yeah, I'm struggling to find a recent, a recent or tangible example. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to portray myself as perfect. You're superhuman. Here. I got it. But I also learned probably earlier than some that I can't do it by myself. So I actually tried to check my myself in decision making and make sure I'm not going at it along and leaving people behind me carrying people out. There's a book by john C. Maxwell that I read a long time ago called winning with people, right? He talks about the elevator principle as you're encountering people in the world, are you lifting folks up or pulling people down? And so I just made a decision A long time ago to lift people up. This means I'm not alone. In those cases, I'm easily surrounded by some really smart people. But

yeah, I guess maybe maybe I'm putting words in your mouth or maybe I'm just speaking for a little bit. But it sounds like there's a little bit humility there to say that I can't do it on my own. I'm not the smartest guy in the room. But I've got a great vision. And you've carried that for a long time. And as a result, you know, you've always been surrounded by great people that are kind of supportive in you haven't had to fall as much as maybe the rest of us do.

Yeah. I mean, setback, you know, I'm sure. in in in a lot of learn lessons, right. But yeah, I've tried and maybe humility is is truly a virtue and not anything learn, but I am self aware enough to know that I'm not everything. Right? I need others around me.

Right? And I mean, I, I truly believe that that is the tipping point, right? Is that when you can reach the conclusion that it's not all about me, or what I'm capable of doing? Or my ideas, you open up the door to exponential growth and possibility, because you've allowed everybody else to be the best of them. Right? So it's, you've hit right on the head, like, what my whole thesis about this, like, why we're talking, right. And the whole thesis of this podcast is, you can't get to where you really want to be on your own. That's right. And at some point, you have to make a conscious decision that says that yes, while in this exact moment, I might be the most capable person of doing this. If I do this work, and not delegated or bring somebody else or help them lift themselves up, then I've just limited myself, right? Because now I'm doing this right now. I don't I don't own the bank, or I'm not the co founder of a bank. I work in a bank. Right? And like, those are very, very different things.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And the sooner you can, can learn that, you know, the better your chances are for success. I mean, something like starting a bank is just not easy to begin with. And so, I mean, you start with, okay, I'm 35 that that was my age, when this all started, there's no way that, you know, I can do this by myself. And so who are those those partners and folks that need to come to the, to the table? And I think, you know, yeah, I think that's right, you have to be so certain about the vision to your point that you are, you know, the best evangelist in terms of pulling people along, but at least them the this is the only in entrepreneurial venture, I've been a part of it just as impossible. So you, you start with, who are the folks that are going to help it succeed? Okay, so

let's talk about like barriers to getting people aligned with your vision, right. So like, not being the kind of the crux of the matter is, if I've got a whole team of people, we got to be swimming in the same direction, especially in a startup environment, right? You got somebody that's swimming off on, you know, in a different direction, you can pull the whole ship sideways, right? So I guess what barriers have you seen, or you had to overcome in getting people to align with your vision?

Yeah. So, you know, we spent a lot of time we knew that we would be the 65th Bank to enter the market. And so one of the barriers was, you know, answering the question before, it's asked, Why does Nashville need another bank? Right. So we thought that that would be a barrier. You know, we're young, we're a young executive team. And so before for some folks, we perceived our age, actually, to be a barrier to being wanting to be a part. I thought the capital raise would be the hardest part. What's interesting is that, although we perceive the the question does naturally lead another bank, to be the primary barrier, as we were raising capital, we found out that wasn't as big of a barrier, as we thought, at the exit of Avenue truly left a void in the market place that a lot of folks understood. And I think Ave had a harder time convincing the market why there was a need for another bank than than we did, because of the success of the brand that had exited recently. Other barriers, you know, there's always, I don't know, in our case, we felt like there were people that just had to be a part that for whatever reason, it didn't work out. And so we had to overcome a barrier that the folks that I really wanted to work with are going to be a part of this, is it worth continuing to pursue it, even if they're not apart? And, you know, ultimately, we decided it was still worth it.

That's, that's, that's really fascinating, right? Because if you think about what you're what you're saying, there is that one, either it's the right person, the right skill set, that you thought was going to be mission critical to being successful. For some reason, it didn't work out for whatever that may be. Somebody else had to rise up and fill that gap. Right. And you didn't see that you kind of took it took a flyer, right. It's a leap of faith here. We're gonna we're gonna go for it. But somebody did it. Yeah. And I think that's, that's neat.

Yeah, no, you're exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, I missed a really critical barrier to, you know, the the regulators, you have to have permission from the federal government. And it's been a long time since a new bank application had been submitted to the Tennessee Department of Financial institutions. And so that was another that was another barrier. convincing them with the vision and confidence in the team. Well, that's great. So I guess thinking,

taking it in a different little bit of a different direction. You know, obviously, there's things that you were you're ready for, you're comfortable with, because you've been in banking for as long as you have. But through this process, you obviously there are areas that, you know, probably you or your co founder, were fully skilled up on, and you had to bring somebody else in. And this is, you know, this is your baby. And you got to get them aligned. How did how did you do that? Like, how do you bring somebody else in, it's like, you know, you're a consultant, you're an outsider, bring them into the tent to make sure that like, you get to where you're trying to go, as opposed to them just coming in and checking the boxes and sending you a bill.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, we had I don't know, you have to agree on the front end of the importance of culture fit. Not. I think your question is more about consultants and partners that were part of the process, then. Employees is that? Yeah,

yeah, that's, that's fair. Like, just give me somebody that's a little bit less in your control, less like inside the tent?

Yeah, yeah. And so I'll take our, our core kind of systems provider, we interviewed technology partners. That's 33. And, you know, for us, it was creating the rubric before the meetings of making sure we're selecting people who our vision aligned with what we want to accomplish. So being having bank that had capabilities that looks different from other community banks was really important to us. And even the, you know, the the very popular large providers that have 1000s of banks on their platform, ultimately weren't selected because the vision wasn't aligned. And we didn't get a sense of a partner ship opportunity, true partnership opportunity. So we ended up choosing a company CSI out of Paducah, Kentucky, okay. No other bank in the market has their platform. And they they grew organically through acquisition. And so every piece of their technology they they developed, which means it all syncs in a way that allows us to show up very sophisticated from a digital experience standpoint. And not not a lot of banks are even asking or thinking about digital experience. Right? in banking. So yeah, we we had the rubric created, and then you're engaging vendors and partners, and comparing them against that rubric and making sure they're they're aligned from a vision standpoint, did you have to have the foresight to mean, you know, as a startup, you need a lot of things. And so there's two approaches, you can just go purchase. Or you can take the time to make sure. Even your external vendors are partners to, to an extent. Yeah, I

think, again, right, it goes back to the vision, and making sure that you find somebody that's excited by that. And they get where you're going, right. So, you know, you don't know, all the nits and gnats and little things that make up how you're going to get there. Your suit, you know, but if you are both so crystal clear on when we're done. This is what it's going to look like. You can walk away from that feeling successful. Yeah.

Yeah. The only thing we knew is, you know, we said we want our bankers to be able to take the system wherever they are with tablets and close a $5 million commercial loan in the office of the client, like no paper whatsoever. We didn't know how to build it. We don't know. Right? It's impossible. But we needed a vendor that could capture that vision and make it make it possible. And be interested, you know, in the challenge, so to speak, to help a community bank as small as we are, really compete with the big boys from a technology standpoint. Yeah.

I love that. You know, because I've sat in the seat and I've made the mistake myself, where you go out and you want to get the biggest and the baddest in the marketplace cuz you're like They've done it right, they can support it. But what you end up with, right, is what they tell you. They've made. So instead of saying, I'm going to craft, you know, this piece of my business, you know, to match my vision, you then have to go backwards and say, Okay, well, hey, look, I've got to like craft my vision to fit with what they said that we can do. And they're very different things.

You're exactly right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And the larger, you know, the larger institutions were just less flexible. Right? In 15, they're yellow. Yo, our vision. Yeah, it's like,

we spent a billion dollars on this. This is what it does, right? Like, this is what you're gonna get, right? As opposed to saying, like, no, but like, that's not our vision. That's not what we want to do and like, and I applaud you, in the studio, and all the folks that made that decision for just being so vision oriented, right? Because it's, it could have been something that you just like, let's see, what's the best off the shelf technology we can get and plug it in? Because we know it to work? And you said, Nope, that's not who we are, as a bank, we got to go find the right partner, that's going to see it through. Right. Awesome. So earlier on, you mentioned, mentors. And I think that that's such a critical piece. Everybody I've talked to you has mentors, some are very formal, and some are very informal. But I guess, tell me your experience with mentors. I know you had one that was assigned to you, and you realize the assignment or is not the best approach?

Yeah. So you know, I have a few mentors. And it's, it started really organically, like, you know, there are folks that I respected their careers, and, you know, knew that they had been places that I had not yet been, and started with just an invitation to take them to coffee and hear their story. And if that went well, you know, ask, you know, can we do this again, sometime, and then we'd have another coffee. And before you knew it, you know, there was a, a relationship there. And you really know that you have a strong mentor when there's shared ownership of your progression. And that's such a good, you know, to have someone that you can objectionably, share and decompress and unload. And who's interested in not in seeing you succeed, that they are making paths possible, if that makes sense. Not just giving advice, but like opening doors and right. Separating you.

So here's, here's like the million dollar question. You'd go out you you invite somebody to coffee, you know, because you recognized in them something that that you wanted to emulate maybe. So the million dollar question is, how often did people say yes,

you know, maybe it's a Nashville thing. And you you're in this market, you can check me if I'm wrong, but I have found that people generally accept an invitation to connect. This is a very relationship oriented city. And I think as people have transplanted to Nashville from other communities, like I've heard that feedback, but it's amazing. You, you know, you want to meet a healthcare executive that you've seen in the Business Journal, send them a clipping of the article, you saw and say, Hey, I'd love to grab coffee. Here's my email. Like, I've gotten responses from that. And it's, it's surprisingly, you know, not that every single request will be met with a yes. But I think the benefit of being a natural is you're in a town that understands the power of relationships. And it's kind of like the Nashville way it's what we've come to expect of our leaders that to some extent,

yeah, I can attesting to Nashville in particular, it is the friendliest most giving city I've ever been in. It's amazing, right? You know, you ask for help you ask for an introduction. It is almost a sure thing. And it's coming from you know, like, I haven't always been in Nashville, but like coming from the outside. Yeah, it's a real must surprising, you know, you're almost like, what do you want return? You know what I mean? Because it's, it feels like, it's like, oh, there must be something I don't know about here. And it's not it really is a really giving really gave me that initial like you may not get the second coffee or the second meeting, but

people are generally open. And I think that plays, you know, into the success of the local economy from a business standpoint because it is easier to get deals done in a city that's open to forging relationships. That one that's, that's more closed. But I think

I'll tell you that so attesting to non Nashville, ask I asked this question to everybody. And people say yes. Right. You know, if you are afraid to ask, right, if you were trying to go somewhere in your career, and you're afraid to ask for help, like the answer is no, because you didn't ask. But the surprising thing is, is that everybody says, Yeah, everybody's open, you know, like, not everybody says, Yes. Right, but more way more than you would think. So by not asking, you're really doing yourself a disservice. You're exactly right. Yeah, I think that's been, you know, from all the conversations I've had, that's been really the kind of surprising, the undercurrent theme is that, you know, some people are just blessed that like, their, their family, and their natural network is just full of just amazing people. That's not me, right. But most people are just saying, Okay, look, I have to, I'm gonna go, I saw an article, like you said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna reach out to this person, and I'm gonna ask them, if they'll have coffee with me or talk to me. And then they do.

That's just great. Yeah, and because of that, I mean, there are places around town that, you know, I know, if I go have lunch there, I'm going to run into 10 or so people that I know, and a few of them that I've been needing to connect with, because Nashville is that relationship oriented type of place. Yeah, that's, that's cool. I'm

glad. I'm glad that you brought that up, especially when you're talking about just reaching out to mentors cold. Because I was gonna ask anyway, so

go get there. For the young professional, or the young entrepreneur, I mean, it can be it can be intimidating. And scary. And to your point, you know, you just have to just have to take that that chance. I mean, I've also been in sales, so I'm used to rejection. Fear of that, they can either say yes or no. And I'll be fine. Either way.

Yeah. And I'm going to ask you this question. But I'm actually going to tell you my answer before it burned out for ask you. So if I could go back in time and give myself advice, a younger me advice? What would it be, I would say, go back and just build relationships, talk to people stay in touch, ask for meetings, just connect, right? build your network, because it's it's your network, and the warm relationships you have along the way. They make all the difference in the world, right. And it's the doors that just may be open to you because you knew the right person. And it's the earlier you start right to your point about a young professional, the earlier you start, the better it is when you get, you know, down the road. And I think for me, I kind of just was like, Well, I'm just gonna go be heads down, and just be the best I can be at like checking this box and doing this work and making sure everybody's happy with my output. And I was less so focused on the relationships. When I picked my head up, you know, as somebody that that's been around the block a time or two, I realized that it's all about relationships. No, nobody's asking me to check boxes anymore. Like, I can check. I can check that box. But like, that's not what my whole career is about. And like, I think similar with you, you it's all about relationship. Yeah, my title is chief relationship officer. Yeah. It's absolutely all about relationship. So it's, I'm gonna ask you that question. Right? If you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice. One, when would you go back to?

And two, what would you What would you tell yourself? Yeah, so I would probably go back to my mid 20s. And I, you know, always been relationship oriented. I've always been outgoing and community service has has always been a part of me. But in my mid 20s, I was not focused, or I did not understand my interest enough from a community building standpoint, and said yes to too many things, if that makes it. So, you know, being a banker, and at the time, I was a banker to the nonprofit community in particular. So, you know, I engaged with a lot of community partners that had fantastic missions. And as a banker, I was asked to serve on all of their finance committees, right. You know, and then you're just you're attending board meetings, for Others think of attending another meeting, and not really chasing impact. And I think that service is important, you know, being a part of the communities that you're situated in. But if you're engaged and excited about the work, your impact on the organization, and the community will be that much more significant. And so I didn't learn until maybe early 30s, that, you know, what I'm most passionate about is youth and public education, in particular, and so I started to shed all of the other responsibilities and just put my energy, and if I'm going to serve on a board, let it be related to public education. And I mean, I derive energy from the work, you know, this isn't something that I dread. It's something that I want to be a part of moving the needle on. And I'm excited about it. It also allowed me to show up differently at the boardroom table. And so I have built connections and credibility with fantastic community leaders, that we've now done things together outside of those organizations, because I brought a sense of energy and excitement and passion to the community work. And so, you know, I wish I hadn't wasted time in my mid mid 20s overstretch because I could have done that much more for myself and for the community.

Yeah, and I guess the following question is, do you think that you really learn the lesson, though, going the way that you did, right? You know, like, if you could go back and be like, well, I'll do all these things. I just focus on you know, this one thing? Would it be as valuable? Or would you be as strong in your stance as you are today?

Yeah, if maybe not, I mean, maybe it happens, for a reason. Yeah, cuz it did give me a lot of experience and help me uncover what the what the purpose is to alternate that to you. I mean, now that you understand the value of a network. And, and all of that, you know, is that is that time loss? Or did that make you a better connector? In in kind of, underscore, you know, how you leverage relationships?

I think, for me, personally, I think it was time lost, right? You know, I really do. You know, I do appreciate kind of what I've missed now. But you know, if I think about it, if I spent more time focused on relationships, and building people up, and then having them do the same thing for me, you know, like, would more you know, doors or avenues be open for me now? Probably, now what I trade anything like I love my life, I think this is great. Like, No, I'm good. But at the same time, I think that, you know, when we think about proxies for experience, there are certain things that you can just learn through somebody else's mistake. All right. And I think my mistake, and I don't think again, it's not a bad one, like, I still think I'm doing a good job of building relationships, was that I focused so much on the work will kind of see you early, and not the relationships. And now I pick up my head, and I realize life is all about relationships. And it's not. I mean, yeah, the works got to be good. But as you grow up, it's less like I'm doing less of the work. And you know, now making sure that our relationships are strong, but

Yeah, good question. Yeah, I mean, I think if I had done things differently, then, you know, there were definitely trade offs. In terms of time for self care, like my mid 20s, was all about performance on the job and saying yes, to everybody that asked, because I was flattered that they asked, right, and you give up, you know, caring for and making time for your yourself along the way. That I'm sure he's probably had some. Yeah.

Well, Harry, one. Thank you so much. Again, this has been a great conversation. I love it. You know, and I think if I reflect you started with vision, right? You actually ended with vision, when you talked about, you know, what is my vision for like what I'm passionate about and gets me excited. It's the same thing. Yeah, and you know, building relationships and focusing on asking other people You know, for their input, and then obviously, being worthwhile, right and making it worthwhile for the other person to stay engaged is important. But just great lessons.

Great lessons. Thank you. Thanks for asking me. Yeah, hopefully there's a nugget or two that that folks can, can take and do something with. But yeah, I've made a commitment to be a lifelong learner. So I appreciate the opportunity to share any thoughts that I have, but also be tuning in and continue to follow you so that I can learn from others as well. Thank you. Thank you so much.

That concludes this week's show. Thanks for listening. Please leave a review on your favorite podcast platform or directly on the site. Your comments are truly appreciated, good, bad or indifferent, and we'll help make the show better. This is Jake Wiley with Wiley on business and we'll talk again two weeks