Tiila Abbitt - Aether Beauty

Hello and welcome to Wiley on Business a podcast where we explore how individuals and companies make dramatic breakthroughs and transform their businesses from a job to an enterprise with real value by enabling others to realize their full potential by being crystal clear on the vision of the business. My name is Jake Wiley in over my nearly two decades of business experience and client service owning a business as well as being a CFO, I've had the opportunity to see the difference between slugging it out to stay above water, and exponential growth. On this podcast, I interview amazing leaders who have figured it out to get their perspectives on how they do it, share it with you. This week, we're joined by Tyler Abbott, founder of ether beauty, Tyler spent seven years at Sephora in charge of product development for makeup collaborations and accessories. However, her obsession with sustainability led her to become the leader of r&d for sustainable materials, while also being on the sustainability Leadership Council for Sephora. Plastic makeup. componentry is a huge source of pollution globally entirely, created a brand that was ethically sustainable, and it won't launch a product until there's a better sustainable alternative. And a portion of every ether sale goes right to environmental charities. We're here with Tyler, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. I know you've we've had some brief conversations before. And we've talked about kind of the thesis of what I'm trying to accomplish here is that there's so many business stories out there that tell the story of how you did it. You know, like at the Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs, he did every single thing you know, and it's the reality is, is it takes a village, it takes a bunch of people. And I think that the most successful Actually, I you know, in all my observations of seeing that the most successful entrepreneurs have learned early on how to work with other people, and kind of made that mental jump at somewhere somewhere along the line. And that's the story I want to tell. So I love your story. I love what you're doing with the beauty products and sustainability. But you've obviously had to kind of make that chasm jump, and just kind of want to chat through that with you. So thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Jay. Awesome. So dive right into it. How much importance would you attribute to other people in your success?

I mean, especially in the beauty industry, there are so many people who become advocates for your brand. And your client really becomes you know, your best source of brand awareness and telling other people as well. So I'm actually a little bit of a unique story for the brands. So I was the only employee for a very long time. And I had the perspective, Well, number one, I did have money to hire other people. So it wasn't like a, you know, ego thing, it was just a resource thing. And it was a really great learning because you also understand what the roles are, and all the needs that you need for your business. And I've never someone that woke up and is like, Oh, I'm going you know, I'm a CEO, and I know how to be a CEO or anything like that you really sort of jump, and you kind of figure it out along the way. And you know, you make some right decisions and you make some wrong decisions. But rolling up your sleeves and diving in, you can really understand what you need, and then what sort of people you need to build your team. I do think that, you know, being small and nimble, really gives you the opportunity to find exactly the holes that you need to create a team. And exactly what you know, your pitfalls are. And like where you need help in order to really grow a business where it should be.

Yeah, I think I think that's so important, right, is that there's like a sense of humbleness in there. And then there's this, I guess, this aura of like, what a CEO is, and they know everything, and they can do everything, and especially the guys that are like, you know, co founded or founded a company and they just did it all themselves. And that's the story they always tell. And it's just like, it's just not true. You know, I really

I am not someone that just gonna wake up one day and be a CFO, like, I'm not someone that should be an accountant or should be, you know, doing back ends of things, but I understand how it works. And I understand the needs for the business and understand, you know, the roles that these people bring to the table and how important it is. I'm very much a a hands off sort of manager. I don't like to meddle in the day to day I really hire people that I have trust in and I let them have that trust. And we sort of have these conversations that you know, I'm here to help them when they need help. But you know, I'm hiring them for their expertise. But I also know what they're doing. So I can understand if you know, they're falling flat on something, or if we need to work on something together. But, you know, really understanding the ins and outs of my business has made me really understand the type of people that I like to hire that really sort of take the brand to the next level.

Yeah, I think that's I think that's right on, you know, like, bootstrapping it in the beginning of time, just gives you so much perspective on where your capabilities are and where they're not. And then also, I think, just understanding like, what you actually like to do and love to do, and you know, how you keep that passion flame burning? Yeah, I think, you know, moving on to the next question, Can you can you give an example of when you realized you're able to leverage others? And that was really a key ingredient to your growth? Was it kind of like an aha moment?

Yeah, so um, you know, basically, in the beginning, I was very naive about launching my brand that I come from retail. So I used to work for Sephora for over seven years in charge of their private label brand at their corporate office. And so I was very used to traditional retail, and I was not used to social media or direct to consumer are sort of building the influencer space. And I naively thought I would just only be a dgc brand and launch and gift a bunch of influencers, and people would love it. And like the brand would take off, right? Well, I didn't realize how much money you need to build a DTC business with ads, and digital marketing and all of that. So I really had to do it as scrappy as possible. And so I, you know, rolled up my sleeves, did all the research on influencers and really sort of created these partnerships with them to be able to get the name out and the word out about the brand. But I had to pivot and go into the retail world at the same time as my own direct distribution, because I didn't have the funds really to build it just digitally. And really use my retail partners as my second partner with building brand awareness and the word of the brand.

Got it? So it sounds like you kind of had to go through the school of hard knocks to get there to figure it out. It wasn't always. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's amazing. I talked to some folks that like, it just can't kind of comes naturally. But also feel like there's so much risk in there. If you're just naturally like able to get other people to work for you. Sometimes you just miss, you know, you can't see the forest from the trees, when you get down into the real weeds of the issues. I guess, how about an example of where you got this wrong? You know, you maybe you tried to do it all by yourself, and the lesson you learn from it?

Yeah, I mean, my biggest mistake with my with my business was not raising capital before I launch to so I never, you know, started a business before, I have been a product developer and really understood the hole in the market. And with my expertise, and my experience, I could have easily raised, but I didn't know I could, and I didn't know that investor world at all. And as soon as I launched, I had investors knocking, and I took every single meeting, I didn't realize that, you know, I really had to interview them. At the same time, I had a lot of people, you know, just wanting to get information or just trying to, you know, get more info about sustainability or about the beauty space, and I just wasted a bunch of time that I could have been utilizing and helping to grow my business. And raising capital has always been the hardest thing for me. And it's always the biggest pain point. It's not something I like to do. And I don't think people realize that, once you go that route, that becomes like your full time job, because you always need to constantly raise. And it really does take the fun out of the good parts of the business. So, you know, I've been really looking to figure out the right way to do that, that doesn't actually, you know, take away from the time that I have when it comes to thinking I'm really the creative behind the brand. So being able to take that time instead and be able to do what I do best. So that's really been a struggle that I've had. But less than 2% of funding goes to female owned businesses, and it definitely shows I mean, half the meetings I've ever had were with white men that were 60 plus in age and they wouldn't you know, they don't really understand makeup or my products or they would Same comments like, oh, let me go home, my wife test this out sort of thing. And I was always with the perspective of, you know, if you don't understand how good this is, then you know, it's not really the right partnership. So even the old CEO at Sephora would try on mascara, cuz he's like, I want to see why we sell millions of units of this product. And it's just really sort of an understanding when it comes to the beauty space, and who's really in there to help people and who's just in there to make a buck.

Okay, so I got a lot out of that. So number one is you should have raised capital first, first, first thing, too. You didn't interview folks. So you wasted a lot of time. Right? And then three, you didn't understand you weren't making the right connections with the right partners that really believed in what you were doing. Is that correct? Is that fair? Okay, so I got, I got some bonus rounds in there.

Yeah. And I say like I should have raised first, because once you're in the market, like I launched at Sephora, I locked at Neiman Marcus, I launched in all these retailers, but I didn't have the cash to really sort of help with those expansions. And so everyone, everyone is very hesitant when your brand is young, especially if you're a CPG brand, you know, I don't have intellectual property, I'm not doing anything in tech sort of thing. And so people, you know, want you to go from like 1 million to 3 million to 5 million to 10 million sort of thing, if you don't have money to grow it, like it's sort of the cart before the horse. So it's been a little bit frustrating on my side, because how lean and mean we are. And what we're generating is pretty impressive. But no matter what it's like never good enough, good enough for these VC investors. So it's been very, a very interesting ride. But I'm also happy that I've never signed on the dotted line, because I came close at a certain point, and it just would have been a terrible relationship. Like I always tell people don't take money just to take money, like really make sure that the people you're bringing on, as your investors really, you know, are the right partners for you.

Yeah, I think, you know, you said a lot. But I think there's so much in that last statement, right? Is that just getting aligned and making sure that like, the vision is the same, and you're going in the same direction? because inevitably, there'll be bumps in the road. And you want somebody that's like, no, I get it, I see what we're doing, as opposed to like, Oh, this doesn't, this doesn't look like what we talked about, you know, therefore, like, I'm confused, and then you spend all your time doing damage control. And I've seen, I've seen businesses just sink, right, because they get in the spiral of trying to like fix things, or paint a rosier picture than than the reality is, and you know, just never, you know, you can't, it's like you're digging a hole. So I think that's, that's so important. Okay, let's, let's flip the script. Let's talk about where you got it. Right, in the lessons that you've learned.

Yeah. So um, you know, what I'm doing is a little bit different from what the industry is used to. So before I launched the brand, sustainability wasn't a topic that was widely talked about when it came to beauty products, especially packaging. So the EPA reported that a third of the landfill is coming from the beauty industry. That's unbelievable. Thank you. People are like, insane. And people, you know, don't understand recycling, and they don't understand our infrastructures and brands don't understand recycling and brands don't understand our infrastructures and what they're buying and what they're putting out there. So I sort of, you know, rolled up my sleeves and really got into the detail then went to recycling facilities and talk to packaging engineers to really just understand our infrastructures. Basically, you know, I launched with the first fully recyclable eyeshadow palette in the beauty space. I also launched the first 100% recyclable liquid lip component that's made of 100% recycled plastics, so no virgin plastic. So what I'm doing and the sustainability space just on packaging is really sort of, you know, the future of beauty. And on top of it, I also source ingredients and take the lens to ingredients when it comes to ethical and environmental sourcing. So there's this whole conversation with clean beauty and like non toxic beauty, but there's a whole other hidden world like people understand flow fashion, they understand you know, how people can be taken advantage of who make your clothes and can be in horrible situations, but they don't understand that in beauty. And it's just as bad if not worse. So there's prison labor involved, there's children, child labor involved, there's all these things when it comes to makeup, unfortunately. But I am starting and leading these conversations in the beauty space. And it's been really exciting. And I've won, I don't even know a ton of awards, over 50 Awards, since I launched, I just won a lores, best of beauty award, which is literally like the Oscars of beauty. So that was incredibly exciting. And just really excited for the product. So the product is what is really sort of changing this world. So all of my products are rated five stars, even on sephora.com, which is incredibly hard to do the average conventional color brand on Sephora rates of 4.2. And then if you take my brand out of clean makeup, it's a 3.8. So just proving that you don't have to give up efficacy or trends or innovative formula and still be sustainable and still make ethical choices and have that performance is nobody else is doing that. So that's sort of the secret sauce with the brand and really sort of educating clients and really educating the industry. So there are so many companies now that are starting to talk about sustainability, they're starting to do things differently. And, you know, they look at my brand as a leader in that space. And, you know, speaking of investors, I always, investors are always like, aren't you scared, people are gonna knock you off. And I'm always like, I want people to knock me off. A third of the landfill is not okay, like, people need to do better this industry needs to do better has like they can try and knock off my formula. Good luck to them. But as far as packaging, like, yeah, it's something that should be changing, and it's not okay, how it's been for the past 5060 years.

That's so fascinating. And it's so hard in the beginning, right? Because people don't think about the sustainability aspect of it. And then, you know, there's so many of the big brands that just tout sustainability, and then there's just a general assumption that they must be doing something great. And it's like, no, they're checking some box somewhere, that gives them the ability to put that on the packaging, versus actually really doing it. You know, I think the fact you know, you're talking about like the, the compact with the mirrors and like that can't be recycled. And therefore it's just out there. And like, nobody knows that, like, that's, I just, I just find that so fascinating.

Yeah, mirrors are not recyclable at all. And it has to do with the coating behind it, which makes sense, right? But people throw mirrors into every single little compact. And, you know, when I worked out at Sephora, actually, we worked with so many professional makeup artists, and whenever we developed a product, we would work with them on the development. And I would always get yelled at by these makeup artists, because they were like, stop putting these heavy mirrors in a palette, we travel with them, they break through in our luggage, they're so heavy. And then when I learned that they're not recyclable, I was just like, had an aha moment. I was like, oh my god. Those like we always, you know, I never use these mirrors in a palette anyway, like, I'm always using a regular mirror in a bathroom or wherever I am. They're always too small, you know, like, it just doesn't make sense. And then magnets are even worse. So magnets are mined with rare earth mining, which is incredibly toxic to its workers and to the environment. And there's magnets and everything, there's magnets in our computer, and our phone and everything, but like, there's no reason for them to be in a makeup product. So, you know, removing those as well is something that, you know, for me, like I look at ingredients, and packaging, like I look at ingredients, like I look at the actual raw material of everything and where that's sourced, which is, takes a lot of education and time. But to me, it's worth it. And that's the best thing about not having an investor's is that I can take the time to really make the product as best as I can, before I launch something versus having the pressure of having to meet a certain threshold and sales and new launches and all this sort of craziness where, you know, I can do it on my own terms and make sure that it's right and right for the brand.

That's so great. The reality is, is sustainability is not going to be a buzzword forever. Like it's going to be the reality of how everything has to be done. And now is is such an interesting transition point in the world because people are talking about it, but they're not doing a lot about it. And you've actually made that the heart of heart of your brand. And I think, you know, obviously you've seen that that's paying off big time. I just applaud you for that. And I know it's probably super hard at the beginning of time to make such a big push, you know, and just take that on. So thank you for doing that.

Yeah, of course, it's just sort of my passion. So it's not really the hardest part about my business at all. Doing the financials, and doing the math and doing all that part is the hardest part for me. But yeah, no, I'm happy to be leading the way. And I actually received a global impact visa for the world for the work I'm doing. So that is through New Zealand. So it gives me and my family and my kids, permanent residents in New Zealand after three years, because they're trying to drive businesses that are doing something for the greater good to New Zealand and to create jobs there. They are just at the forefront, and so great when it comes to thinking differently and thinking better for everyone. So I'm excited to be part of that program. Oh, that's a that's a really like forward thinking program, too. Yeah, it's amazing. And we are just in limbo right now waiting to go to New Zealand. But yeah, they're close. So it's gonna take

so cool, I guess, do you recall, like a specific turning point, when you kind of realize that your ability to be the best you was dependent on empowering other people to be the best them? Or was it like a gradual process?

I mean, it's gradual, because of finances. I know what I need. I don't necessarily have the money to hire. But I did bring on a few people to the team that were just essential to the brand. And really, you know, I couldn't do it without them. I have I tell that to that to them all the time. And I, I understand that. But same thing they can't do without me. Like, we all just bring something different to the table. And we all wear multiple hats. So I do think that's something that's really relevant for small indie brands, but also sort of the way of the future because everything is always changing all the time. I mean, social media changes monthly, and just understanding all different aspects of what you need to build a business. So yes, I can do the product development, but I can also do the marketing, but I can also do the retail sales, I can do, you know, we all wear multiple hats, and I have someone who can do operations, who's also a makeup artist who's also great at customer service. So it's been like, you know, and it's not like, you know, I work all the time, they don't that, you know, it's not their business, which, but we have to really sort of bring the best of our skills to the table and sort of roll up our sleeves on what we can do. But yes, I couldn't ever do it without these two people on my team and excited I have another person starting next week of ad, which they're going to take over marketing, which literally social media, I just, I don't know how kids do it these days, like people can be, it's like, I'm too close to it, because it's my brand. So you know, you need space to be order in order to handle it. Because people like knock you up and tear you down in like two seconds on social media. And I you know, I'm very scared of our future generations for what that's going to mean for them. So yes, very happy for my new hire.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's, it's amazing what people will say, Oh, my God, and no, like, knowing that it will be out there forever.

Yeah, and like this whole cancel culture thing. It's like something is wrong, or people you know, use their voice to say something, which is great, but then they also use it very negatively. And I feel like people just don't know how to have a conversation anymore. Like, it's very interesting. Um, but yeah, social media is one thing. I've definitely saved my kids from so far. So we'll see how long that will last.

Good luck. So you said something earlier, and we're really gonna dive into it now. But you hire for skill sets. And you trust the people to do basically what they are hired for. But what's, you know, so integral is incorporating that or making sure that it's totally aligned with your brand, right, because you can't just abdicate the authority to say, okay, you just go do this. Because you never know like, if it's going to get offline, how do you manage that? How do you how do you keep people totally aligned with you, but also give them the distance in the space they need just to be awesome.

We work together at first and I have since I am so small, I hire people as consultants first, which also really helps. So you know, I am a proponent for people working for you in that way before you hire full time because you could have you know it, you could have That person, like, someone just doesn't fit or their work isn't, you know, what you're looking for sort of thing. So, you know, it really gives you that ability to understand how someone really works with you first before you can hire them full time as an employee. So that's been really useful. But I do, you know, I have honest conversations with everyone, I don't hide anything. And because of my corporate experience, you know, I, there's always, there's always gonna be a problem, you know, there's always going to be an issue with the business, and it's a faora, you know, I was really lucky, because, you know, so far as a huge entity, they have tons of money, and if a mistake is made, it's not like gonna run the business under the ground, right. But it gives you that ability to work with people. And, you know, when I worked at, for up to always a production issue, something's gonna be late, blah, blah, blah. And I saw how some people treated other people and they would just, you know, rake them over the coals or, you know, just be sort of not so nice to your manufacturers, or to the people that are really your team, even if they don't directly report to you, or even if they don't directly work for your business. But they're all you know, nobody wants to have a product late, nobody wants to have a product issue. So how do you, you know, come to the table with ideas instead of negativity on how to fix something. And that is something I learned at Sephora, and that's something I take with me. And it's very open. So no one is gonna do anything wrong. We all make mistakes, we're all learning. But I'm very much a proponent of being open and telling, you know, telling me when there's something wrong, you know, how do we work on something together? And then, you know, we talk things out in the beginning. So even if it's not a problem, but like, I asked questions all the time, like, I have no problem saying, I don't know something I'm like, what does that mean? Why are you doing that? And it just gives me the insight to how they think, and then how we can apply things together. And sort of once I build that trust with someone, I'm very like, okay, like, go and run with it. But, of course, we have meetings, and it's not like I just let them run and run, but I have trust in my people, because I don't believe in not, you know, I'm hiring people for their expertise. So I don't like that idea of micromanaging someone, or I just honestly, I don't have the time. And I don't have the patience to micromanage someone. And I'm like, you know, you can you understand the ups and downs, I've managed many people before. So it's really understanding that we're all people and really understanding what their good parts are and what they need to work on, and how you can sort of use both to really build out the best. And then

yeah, that was as good. I got one thing that I don't want to like circle back on, because I thought it was really great. Is that you question in a way that gets you to the point where you can understand how they think. Right? So it's almost like, Okay, I get the way you think about these things. More so than like, what are we actually doing here? Right. It's like, I get your thought process and therefore, like, we apply that to a situation, I can have trust that you're going to take the right approach. I think I think that's super cool. Yeah, that's a that's a great way to think about it. Do you do that proactively? I know, you said you know, you don't know things or you really just question proactively, it's

always been part of my personality or my experience, because I always got put in roles that I weren't, I wasn't necessarily like the right fit for not to be whatever. Like I started my whole career. My backgrounds in fashion design, I started as an intern, and I like worked my way up, but I never, you know, the people I work for, I always have this mentality that I am, I can learn from them. And basically, it's more of like an inquisitive mindset, I guess. And then when I got my job at Sephora, I almost didn't take the job because my background was in fashion design. And my old boss became a vendor for them. And they were looking for someone to do their private label brand for all of their accessories like makeup brushes, eyelash curlers, all of like the tools of the trade. And, you know, I didn't think I could do the job. I was like, I was actually a knitwear designer, like a sweater designer. And so they kept calling me in and I kept you know, it was one of those things. I just took it as practice and like I wasn't nervous or anything like that, showing them my portfolio and I was honest, then they were like, they quiz me and like, what's my favorite mascara and all these things and I was like, honestly, I barely wore wear tinted moisturizer. And like me, we I know the name of it sort of thing. But they were like, That doesn't matter. Like we can teach you all of that. When I started there, you know, I had no problem telling my boss, I had never, you know, designed to make a brush. I had never designed an eyelash curler, I am I should have honestly been an industrial designer, I didn't have that option. When I went to school, I didn't even know about it. I have a BFA in sculpture and a double MFA in fashion and newer design. But anyway, I digress. But I love materials, I love things. I love figuring out how they're made. And so it's sort of I just always ask people, and I always have this nature of like, well, I don't know what that means. So tell me, or, you know, I don't know what this is. So tell me or it just sort of how I've been with life. And so I am like that with people and how they think, too, especially with my business, because I'm, I'm still trying to learn it all. Not that I expect myself to do it. But if I'm just going to manage people, or manage people that are like accountants or marketing, like I've never been an accountant before. And I shouldn't be. But like, you know, being able to manage someone who you don't even know what they do. So it really sort of gets you in their mind gets you to understand how they think. And I don't know, maybe I'm a permanent student, I don't know. It's just sort of nowadays.

Now, I love that mentality. Because so many people think that they have to know it all. And therefore they never asked the questions. And it just, it just catches them, you know, like it, you don't see a comment. And one day, it's like things have gone too far. It's like, well, if you just ask some questions when you had a question, you know, six months ago,

I always tell people to like I maybe it's because I've also worked with interns, my whole career, like even fashion, you get interns all the time. And I know from their minds that they have questions, and I always tell people, I've worked with them. Like, there's no stupid question, you can ask me over and over again, maybe not 50 times the same thing. But you know, like, I have no problem repeating myself until you understand and like, I'd rather you ask a question than assume something or, you know, or, you know, just do something on your own or, you know what I mean? Like, not trust your gut. So, yeah, I'm just always very open to people being the same way. Like I don't mind if they want to know about product development to they want to know about where I did this, or how I did that. Or they want to learn something like it's, I'm opponent for it.

So that that might be like the secret nugget from this whole interview, is everybody should get an intern and work with them for at least two to three weeks. And then take that and apply that to every other conversation that you ask questions. beginner's mind here. Okay, well, let's get into some of the Bonus questions. Do you have a mentor?

Yes. So I have someone who used to be the chief merchandising officer at Sephora is a very close friend and mentor, and is really great at helping me understand the small business world. And really how to build brands and has just been I, I couldn't, I wouldn't be here without her. So she has been very, very amazing. And just so open, and so never needing anything, like it's just always there, which is so so nice. Instead of trying to get on someone's calendar, like making, you know, it takes two weeks, and then like the problems gone, like sort of thing. So it's very nice to have that almost like mother mentorship that you just have that sort of trust and can call in whenever you need something or just need to cry, because it's been a crappy day sort of thing. So it's been everybody needs some someone like that. Yeah, I

think from other folks that I've talked to you that's a common trait is that they have a mentor, and it's somebody that can just pick up the phone and call. It's not formal. It's it's totally, I'm there when you need me. That's really

nice. As far as a group of other CEOs, other female CEOs that we text all the time, we call each other all the time, and we're all very open about our businesses and help each other when we're down and help each other. We praise each other when we're up. And that's been incredibly helpful, too. So the one mindset too, is that I'm not I'm competitive, but I'm not. So I definitely a competitive person. I like to win. But in the beauty space, I know that there's enough sand in the sandbox for people and that we're all doing different things. So it's amazing. To raise other people up as well, and have that sort of relationship where you can praise your competitor who's like, your best friends with the CEO, you know, like, it's just, it's nice. So that's been really instrumental to because we're all sort of at the same stage in our business. And we all make stupid mistakes. And we all have solutions or things like maybe one of us is tribe, but somebody needs to know now sort of thing. So that's been really helpful as well. So it's kind of like a collaborative mentor group. Yes. Like peers? Yeah, I think, you know, I

actually think I could do another podcast that would be, I actually believe that if you have a really good passionate business idea that's yours, you could tell everybody in the world exactly what you do. And it would nobody could ever take it from you. You know, and I don't think, I don't know if it'd be really successful. Because I don't know if I could get enough of people to agree with me on that. Actually, come on, and talk about it. But I, you know, I think that that just how it works, you know, if it's, if it's your thing, you know, everybody will see that, you know, just because you can see somebody else's being successful, and you're like, Here, I'll give you the recipe. Like, it might work for a second, but it's not gonna work for the long haul, and people see through it, and it'll just come out in the end. Okay, so last question. If you could go back in time and tell your younger self, one key piece of advice. When would you go back to? And what would that advice be?

I mean, I always, you know, I tell my interns, like, I have such an odd pattern in how I got where I am. And I was always like a creative kid. I always made stuff and sold it. Like I used to make jewelry and sell it outside my dad's office. But I didn't necessarily think I would be an entrepreneur. Or maybe I just didn't think about it. Honestly, like I was always someone who had product ideas or thought about solutions to things. I was actually someone my mom, like hated going shopping with me, because I was so picky that I would never get anything. And my sister was always like, the spender would always get the J crew catalogs and like the 80s and like get stuff shipped, which was like, so expensive back then. And she would like spend money on a dime, but I would be the kid that like I wanted something that didn't exist yet. And so it was always really hard for me to go shopping because I'd want like, you know, neon green chucks or something and like they just weren't in the market yet sort of thing. So that had to do with like, people who were able to trend forecast. So I do trend forecasting as well now, but basically, I've even like my whole It's so weird. So I used to make homemade beauty products when I was in college. So I was a big old hippie, I've been a vegetarian, so I was 14 years old. And I used to just make this stuff because I just like the act of making like, I like cooking, I like making candles, I like making sugar scrubs, like I just like the act of making and, and I used to make these products and just sell them at a restaurant I worked at and people were like, why don't you make this a real business? Or why don't you, you know, go into this and I was like, Oh, I'm going to art school, I'm going to do something and like the creative like I did, I separated the two. And I didn't realize that I could really combine it like if you told me my big old hippie self in high school that I was gonna own a makeup brand I would have like laughed at you like very hard, because I didn't wear makeup. But you know, I really sort of came full circle with understanding product understanding production. I also used to be obsessed with crystals when I was a big old hippie and that has come full circle because all my products are made with crystals. And I'm now surrounded by crystals once again. But really sort of you know, when opportunities present themselves, you should take them so I I was always someone that just would find a new art and sort of be obsessed with it and then learn as much as I can and then never want to touch it again. Like I have a quilt. I started hand sewing that's over 20 years old that I've never finished. And you know, I studied photography. I've studied glassblowing I've studied ceramics, I ended up with sculpture major and then went to fashion design school and then ended up in beauty and it just like there's just opportunities that come your way that like the Sephora one if I didn't take it, I would have never known the beauty world and my old boss I almost didn't take the job. And my old boss was like, what's your biggest fear? You can't do it? Well, you don't know unless you try Like, so what if you suck at it and quit. But literally, you will never push yourself or know unless you try something. And I took the job and it was one of my most favorite jobs I've ever had in my life. And it's brought me to where I am now. So it's just, you know, these little odd things in your life that you've learned and pick up along the way. And then at some point, it all comes together. And sort of having trust, having trust that what you learn, or what's being brought to you, you know, whether you believe in like the cosmos of the universe, or whatever you believe in, I do believe we all like have our own path. And that if you just trust like things will come together.

Okay. So that the advice that I got out of there was nothing really overly. Yeah, it wasn't overly like specific on something other than you will have these experiences in life. Just be open to them, because at some point in time, it'll all make sense. Yes. Okay. Like,

I don't think there's anything wrong with like changing your career, I don't think there's anything wrong with having interests to learn different things or getting bored with stuff. Do you find that it's very, like, it's an American mindset to think that way. I do know, other people in other countries, especially in certain countries, in Europe, it's like thought down upon if you change your career, or if you do something different, or like, you have to go back to school, like it's, we are given a unique opportunity here. And that's why I also like wearing different hats because you learn different things. And, you know, not that I'm ever going to be an accountant one day, but I definitely know more about accounting now than I've ever known before in my life. So if I had to, you know, sink or swim, like it'll, I'm gonna swim. So, you know, just really being able to be open to learning. Just learning.

Yeah, nothing. And really, that applies to like, the weird stuff that happens, you know, there's so many things you're like, I would have my day would have been better if that didn't happen. Oh, man, five years down the road. Sometimes, yeah. But like, you know, randomly five years down the road, something happens and you're like, Oh, I was like, totally prepared for that. And it's so it's so strange how that comes to be. And, you know, I've actually, I've spent a lot of time personally just focusing on, you know, being open to the moment, whether good or bad, like, there's a reason for it. And at some point in time, it's gonna pay dividends for me, so just roll with it. Exactly. That concludes this week's show. Thanks for listening. Please leave a review on your favorite podcast platform or directly on the site. Your comments are truly appreciated, good, bad or indifferent and will help make the show better. This is Jake Wiley with Wiley on business and we'll talk again two weeks